BillyJenningsBoots 3:19 Mon Sep 29
Building Surveys help needed
|
|
I'm buying a house and not sure which survey to use. Been quoted 275+vat for a visual survey which doesn't include damp testing...... I've been looking around at the different levels of survey available and this sounds like a level 2 RICS buildings survey.
But my question is - Should I go for this or a full Fabric Survey.
The house was built around 1905 and look fine no obvious damp or structural movement, the electrics have been updated (although in surface mounted trunking) ....
I've heard stories that even a full survey will not necessarily cover everything and will include the usual caveats should anything be found post purchase...
Anyone got any advice!?
|
|
|
Replies - Newest Posts First ( Show In Chronological Order)
The old c wing
10:53 Mon Sep 29
Re: Building Surveys help needed
|
Cavity wall ties got into the discussion because of me and another poster, highlighting the stupidity of the surveying process.
|
ManorParkHammer
10:52 Mon Sep 29
Re: Building Surveys help needed
|
1930's.
Highly unlikely beforehand.
|
,
10:39 Mon Sep 29
Re: Building Surveys help needed
|
This house was built in 1905 why should cavity wall ties be an issue?
How long ago did houses get built with cavity walls?
|
ManorParkHammer
10:31 Mon Sep 29
Re: Building Surveys help needed
|
Damp meters are the tools of estate agents. I can't think of a single case of 'damp' that a damp meter has been of any assistance on.
Except when trying to explain damp to morons using bright lights and even then it normally doesn't help.
|
The old c wing
9:58 Mon Sep 29
Re: Building Surveys help needed
|
Hi Noah -
In terms of electric/gas etc - well that's exactly my point really, they will make assessments but its not a full damp survey, a few readings are taken - nor will they establish causes.
Timber wont be inspected in detail for instance. E.g. it may say, 'there are signs of a possible infestation in loft timber' but not make a judgement on whether this is recent or historic.
So its always, yeah we found something, get another survey done. Fork out more, because we aint making judgements on anything that could leave us liable in future. And who are you forking out more to? Oh yeah, people in the same bloody industry...
I am talking about surveys that mortgage companies are privy too - that is generally the case if I ask for a mortgage and then choose from the 3 options I mentioned previously? I.e. if I want a full structural survey then that is reported to me and any potential retainers to the mortgage company, as well as a valuation as part of it.
Cavity Wall ties - oh lord don't start me. The surveyor we had basically said that because the property was built in 1950 it needed a wall tie survey. There is no horizontal cracking or bowing to any of the external render, he made no judgement on that. He made the claim purely on age - and over 40% of the property is an extension that was built in 1990 (he wrongly deemed this to have been built shortly after the original construction).
This I am contesting and asking for my money back - its a joke, the regional director I spoke too basically defends it on the basis that it is 'what they see on the day' and that the surveyor's word is gospel.
As far then getting a survey on that, I spoke to the original survey company (major national) and approx. 20 independent companies in the area, none offered it, only wall tie companies. That isn't pot luck, because of the invasive and labour intensive nature of the procedure - it isn't simply a case of drilling holes if done properly.
Its not just via one bad experience though, again as mentioned previously, the industry is pretty much crooked in my opinion. Plenty of surveyors play at the whim of mortgage providers who only want extremely low risk customers and properties - do a simple gocompare and find me the top 10 current offers in or around the magic 20% deposit range, over half will be small lenders.
For the money, I don't think any of it is worth it, no - sorry mate!
|
COOL HAND LUKE
7:52 Mon Sep 29
Re: Building Surveys help needed
|
BJB
For a residential survey, the lender will simply be satisfying themselves that if worst scenario arises they can get back the amount they are lending to you. Even in an atrocious state, a place will have a bottom line value.
I have been buying/selling and renovating property most of my adult life, and I have always relied on builders & tradesmen to go through any potential purchase and identify requirements and costings. They have never failed me yet.
|
munkyfunk
7:43 Mon Sep 29
Re: Building Surveys help needed
|
Noah I agree mate
It would have cost me far much more trying to sue the surveyors with a chance of losing the case it wasn't worth it.
I understand builders don't have the credentials, but I've used them twenty years and have more faith in them at moment than a surveyor
|
,
7:22 Mon Sep 29
Re: Building Surveys help needed
|
Houses were not built with cavity walls in 1905 so what's going on?
|
BillyJenningsBoots
5:33 Mon Sep 29
Re: Building Surveys help needed
|
Hmmmm
The mortgage is approved and the lender (Nationwide) have not asked for any further surveys - they had the valuation survey and that was it!
We have received the full offer. This maybe due to the fact that we are only asking for a 75% mortgage.
|
Noah
5:25 Mon Sep 29
Re: Building Surveys help needed
|
sorry about typoes. on phone.
|
Noah
5:13 Mon Sep 29
Re: Building Surveys help needed
|
A few points about what you say c wing.
You're right a building surveyor will visually inspect mechanical and electrical services - if you want them tested, you'll need an engineer or electrician. If I saw something that concerned me, I'd make the recommendation. In this case the survey could include the wiriing if this is surface mounted.
A full survey will include a damp survey with a moisture meter. If it's missed then you'd be entitled to pursue the surveyor for damages.
The mortgage lender need not be privy to the report if the client doesn't want then to be. The building survey can be used to rebut anything raised in the mortgage lenders valuation survey.
Cavity wall tie failure is evidenced by a particular pattern of cracking. A building surveyor of engineer can carry out a survey for this not just a installers.
A full building survey will include getting into void and inspecting as much of the building as is accessible. It includes lifting drain covers where possible and, with permission of the owner lifting carpets etc.
If you had a shit surveyor then you have my sympathy but it makes good sense to get a survey done. A builder does not carry professional indemnity insurance!
|
ManorParkHammer
5:08 Mon Sep 29
Re: Building Surveys help needed
|
'It wasn't like that when I looked at it'
The Surveyors Guidebook
|
munkyfunk
5:00 Mon Sep 29
Re: Building Surveys help needed
|
As a note given the age of the property your buying if you don't know anyone then I'd get a full survey but read t&c's if they miss anything as I didn't have a leg to stand on
|
munkyfunk
4:58 Mon Sep 29
Re: Building Surveys help needed
|
Had a full structural survey on my house 2yrs ago
They missed that it needed a new roof
Damp in front wall downstairs
As a start..
They came back with the usual electrics need updating and plumbing checking but missed the major points.
I shone a torch down dwarf walls in loft extn once moved in and could seen roof had damage, water damage to rafters, front wall was black, all hidden by sofas at the time.
They are not allowed to move furniture so if the occupants have covered anything they are not at Liberty to move furniture so surveyor can check..
Tried to claim back afterwards and lost the case.
Next time I'm getting my own builder and roofer round to do checks and sort them a drink, at least you get an honest report back..
All they had to do was shine a torch down the dwarf walls and it was so obvious it was rotten..
Swings and roundabouts tho, as the house I sold had damp in outside wall which was never picked up by the people buying my old house..
Personally I have builders and trades I trust and will use them for any future house purchase..
This was a £1500 survey not just the big standard home buyers report.
|
The old c wing
4:49 Mon Sep 29
Re: Building Surveys help needed
|
Rant...
Have moved house 3 times in last 4 years so have a bit of experience in this sort of thing.
I'm assuming your mortgaged and the mortgage company are giving you the three choices?
1. Visual survey/valuation - not exactly as it sounds, they will visit the house potentially.
2. Homebuyer - mid range, about £500, headline stuff.
3. Full structural survey, approx. £800, all singing and dancing.
Bear in mind a few things...
For the full structural, they will still only look at what they can - i.e. they may test light switches to see if they work but they will not test the flow or quality of the earthing (as an example).
They will swing a damp meter about, but make no assessment beyond that unless visually obvious.
There is a significant risk (as we found out in our current house) that if you get anything above a valuation, that they can make broad comments about problems or potential problems that the mortgage company can then put a retainer on.
We had the issue of cavity wall ties, where they basically said because of the property age we should have them tested. The ONLY firms who do this testing are cavity wall tie installers.
Part of the cause for this was that they made mistakes about the property/extension age and I am in the process of trying to recover the money. We ultimately went with a different mortgage company and had a standard valuation with no issues.
The problem with surveyors is that is basically 'how they see it on the day' and its very open to abuse in my opinion.
I suppose it is very much dependent on the nature of the price you are paying and the house. We got a very good price for a property in need of TLC but nothing really wrong with it.
My suggestion? Get the standard valuation and If you know a good builder pay them for their time to go around with you for another visit and see what they think - tell the agent its to quote for some work and once your in tell the agent to bugger off or lose the sale.
Much I suppose depends on the price paid and the house - if your in the stronger position you could use the survey as leverage to get money off, if they are in the stronger position, it could mean you taking a hit from the mortgage company.
Who is your mortgage company? Again, beware many of the smaller lenders who are offering excellent deals - again from experience, many of them just want to lend not only to zero risk clients but zero risk houses.
|
Gavros
4:07 Mon Sep 29
Re: Building Surveys help needed
|
Noah, I agree and will happily pass on 1000 nigerian naira next time i see you.
|
Noah
4:06 Mon Sep 29
Re: Building Surveys help needed
|
I was working on commission Gav. Shall we say 50-50?
swtoc?
|
Gavros
4:02 Mon Sep 29
Re: Building Surveys help needed
|
Yes Noah gave me some cracking advice once regarding a certain Nigerian council-employed surveyor.....saved me a couple of grand, that did.
|
zebthecat
3:48 Mon Sep 29
Re: Building Surveys help needed
|
Go for a full structural survey especially given the building's age.
Glad I did on a potential purchase (1890s cottage) as it found:
Rising damp in kitchen
Rising damp in living room
Rising damp in hall
Front and side wall cavity ties broken/corroded resulting in bowing walls.
One of the two chimneys unsafe and both required relining.
Uncertified gas boiler.
|
Noah
3:48 Mon Sep 29
Re: Building Surveys help needed
|
BJB
You have WHOmail.
|
| 
